I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! Its difficult to believe thats a coincidence. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. Still waiting. The thing I hate is getting kicked around! With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered. I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. Dude, your story is THREE years old. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. But that's not working in the P320, he said. People who had problems have been replacing them with Lightning Strike SS ones. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. Either the gun is defective or its not. Frankly, I think that ship is the best looking sci-fi ship design ever, with the Excelsior a very close second. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. Theyre the only product that is not. He was told to shoot two rounds. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? Sometimes you dont get what you pay for but now SIG has bragging rights. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. Quit blaming cops or the military, these guns have a serious problem. On Nov. 5, 2020, a recently-purchased SIG Sauer P320 pistol went off unexpectedly at a training range in Dwyer Hill, outside of Ottawa. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. One hell of a conspiracy. I am still waiting for the UPS man (not from the devil but from Sig) I will not hold my breath. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. Hey, Im glad theres somethings we agree on! Its hard to say yet but with anything follow the basic safety rules. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. U.S. lawsuits Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. And on the flip side of the coin is the decades of denial by Remington on the 700 which Ive seen firsthand. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. The problem was strikers. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. . And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. Really? is the manual safety a kit you add? . Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. The problem is non-existent. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. The SIG will be the shortest military contract for guns in history. They didnt have to, but did. If you can make the trigger move backwards, all bets are off. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. 3) If the sear fails, there is the drop safety in the way of the striker. PDs are dropping them from contracts. To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. Excellent work. Sig P320 discharge while holstered. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. , 54 people all shooting themselves. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. Thats the same. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. Fine. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. Good job! I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . (a) A person commits an offense if the person recklessly discharges a firearm inside the corporate limits of a municipality having a population of 100,000 or more. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. . Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. That could happen easily. Companies stay silent About $300. By hoping Sig gets taken down for the P320, theyre actually setting up their own pet brand to be the next on the chopping block. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. Yaaay! Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. LOL! The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. Yes, conspiracy to defraud is a thing when ones @ss is on the line. No autographs, No self taken pictures. Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. to docile, too subtle, to contextual. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. There are tens of millions of gun owners, far more than there are cops, and the VAST majority of those folks buy their guns and drop them a nightstand drawer or up on a closet shelf and leave it until theyre needed. Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle. Sig Sauer's P320 is widely used by police departments across the country, and is a big seller in the civilian market, with about half a million sold nationwide. MIM strikers made in India and put into Sigs. If these same folks were around in the 80s and got their way, no one today would know what a Glock was. Before the madness SIGS were expensive. They are being replaced with Glocks. Nope. Glock is being sued too, because once loaded and a round is chambered, it also has a much lighter trigger than a DA/SA. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. Thats why the US Marines have Sigs. It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. The problem with Sig is with their polymer pistols. The new Kirk does suck. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/. There were a lot of changes. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. My trust for Sig stopped after they produced the beloved Sig556xi Russian. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. Funny how that works. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? Because its flat out bull**it. What I can say is that article reads like a hit piece on the individuals who may or may not of made mistakes with their firearms from someone who worships at the alter of sig. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. . If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. That focus drifts. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation.